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and now a message from the inside of

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 62 for the yeah the 25th

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of december 2009 and for those of you

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enjoying Christmas Merry Christmas this

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is the first of our winter specials if

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you're in the northern hemisphere or

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summer specials if you're in the

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southern hemisphere the skeptic zone

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team are taking a little break for a few

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weeks but don't worry the show keeps

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getting produced on today's show we have

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a lecture given at the recent breeze

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skepticon convention in brisbane

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australia by dr. chrissy wilson a good

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friend of the skeptics and the skeptic

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zone so sit back have a nice glass of

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eggnog if you're in North America an ice

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cold beer if you're in Australia and

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wherever you are in the world drink

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whatever you want and enjoy this episode

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and now we bring you dr. Chrissy Wilson

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from the University of Tasmania I

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researcher in anomalistic psychology as

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she gives her presentation at the recent

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skeptical convention in Brisbane

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those of you who were at the Tasmanian

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skeptics conference two years ago would

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have been lucky enough to watch dr.

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Chrissy Wilson a very vibrant and

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accomplished presenter and person

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Chrissy had just arrived in Australia

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from the UK to join the Department of

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Psychology at the University of Tasmania

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as one of their lecturers she's had a

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very interesting life and that she's

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been everything from a professional

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actress to training staff with british

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airways but today she's here to talk

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about a topic very dear to my heart

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which is the psychology of belief so i'd

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like to introduce christie to come and

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have a look have a chat like the morning

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skeptics ok now before i start i wanted

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to ask you if you wouldn't mind doing me

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a little favor as Retta said i emigrated

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two years ago and haven't been back to

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London sins and um this the audio of

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this lecture is actually going to be

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played on a BBC radio 4 program back in

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England now those of you that don't know

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BBC Radio 4 is quite prestigious media

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outlet so it's a really good thing for

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my career so I was gonna ask if you

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wouldn't mind that Richard or edit out

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over all my chattering at the beginning

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it you wouldn't mind it may be nice

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me daddy applause just go absolutely

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crazy bluefin charge premises when they

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hear that back home I think glad you

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know she's done well

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she's because I'm beggin important okay

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so I'm gonna count to three and then go

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I can't believe if you felt

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is getting

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I was our fault I and it wasn't the

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booze from fantastic evening last night

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it was I can't get that Tim Minchin

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thing thing out of my head um storm I

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think I'm sorry for storm but she said

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well I got a good girl to me I mean

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anyone who can actually quote

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Shakespeare didn't have dinner party

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early unless quite impressive I was

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thinking about Tim mentions wife there

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are one of the reasons why I think she

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was pissed off it wasn't because Tim

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interrupted the dinner party he just

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spent the last 10 minutes chatting up I

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was by own admission extremely

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attractive woman no I think that's

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watching this pistol on the topic Jim

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what wrong with Chardonnay didn't I miss

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a memo sorry ok get on with it wasn't

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real ok oh now those of you who have

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heard me talk before you'll know that

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area is an ominous stick psychology not

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only go on too much about long list

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excited d this is the branch of

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psychology that I'm interested in North

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parapsychology is looking at skip a

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skeptical approach to belief in the

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paranormal stuff from a psychological

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and physiological perspectives and

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that's that's what I do my work at the

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and I finally finally managed to

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convince the psychology department that

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some I can teach animalistic psychology

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to to my students that I'm not a

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parapsychologist though I'm not going to

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be starting telling them all about

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psychic stuff I'm actually skeptical so

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they're finally allowed me to them it's

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finally allowed me to to present an

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enormous dick course at you tears and

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and set up a research laboratory so

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according it the center of research for

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yes how'd you do i'm dr. Christie Wilson

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head of crap and uses and the email was

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braided well crap at utah's ng dati now

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before I carry on with about the

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psychology of belief which I will get to

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eventually I do tend to waffle on little

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bit i will get there in the end but i

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have to tell you a little bit about

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tasmania it's a wonderful wonderful one

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place but I've discovered talking to

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mainlanders but there seems to be this

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notion amongst mainlanders that that

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Tasmania is this weird slightly strange

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rather backward freezing cold lump of

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rock at the end of a good fit and well

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yeah that pretty much sums it up for

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exactly just in case you're not sure

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where is there it is shaped like a

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little heart I'm shining in the bass

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strait and then oh but I like that for

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you because Tasmania wonderful wonderful

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place it is very very weird it's very

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strange it's a psychologist dream when

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we first landed I thought oh my god I'm

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in belief heaven it's very very strange

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Oh every day since I've been there I

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have ridden through the valley of the

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beguiled I danced in the fields of

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delusion I'm dummy with the mentally

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alienated and that's just the Utah staff

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room right it's a wonderful place

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absolutely wonderful i love it but I've

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had some of the strangest strangest

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experiences of my life over the last two

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years one day there was a knock on my

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office door hi Kristi connect another

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word yeah yeah and it was a really nice

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girl a PhD student Tasmanian go very

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sweet Mary and I swords got on with it

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really well Oh Christy a lot message for

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you I don't GUI we going I thought well

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this is some other bit of administrative

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finality that is the bane of most

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academics life so all right our what is

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it which is a Brighton I've got a

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message but I've got a message for you

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what if Roy well you better come in then

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so she sat down and she was by 10 so

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those are quite nervous oh god what on

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earth is she going to tell me as I well

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you know what's the message that I on

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Chrissy but though God has given me this

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message for you and if you don't mind

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I'd like to tell you what it was what do

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what it is yeah sure okay um and she

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told me the message and although I feel

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that we've bonded you and I now that

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especially the point the audience

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participation then I don't feel

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confident enough to tell you what the

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message was that's between me and heard

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God okay Barry gave me the message and I

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said well thank you for that given up

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and she said can I pray for you Jen and

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fine so she got down on her knees is

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absolutely true got down on her knees in

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my office put a hand on my hand and

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prayed for me I that was an interesting

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10 min again then there was more

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encounter with the TV lady of Epping

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Forest and when I arrived my students at

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our Christie Christie you've got to go

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and see the Tea Leaf Lady of Epping

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Forest why okay she's absolutely

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fantastic she'll definitely convince you

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game on mrs. read the tea leaves lady of

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Epping Forest what a wonderful title I

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mean come dedup for me this fantastic

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sort of my best like scene of a blasted

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Heath and some toothless old hags that

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rather be called Ronia I after we are

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Stephanie don't you know but um

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it was nothing like that at all

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unfortunately we sat in a front room and

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well I'm sorry to say that the financial

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crisis has finally hit Tasmania and a

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tea leaf lady had actually run out of TV

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so she had a team back so that their way

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there and she says to me I'm gonna do an

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Australian accent not going to solve it

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she said what I can hear from your

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accident you're not you're actually from

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I'm actually all right english i arrived

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from Teddy Boy from England them couple

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years ago and five minutes later she's

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tearing at this tea bag holding it up

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you know getting a residual energy

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getting the messages and she says right

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I'm saying I'm not travel when you're

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longer 11,000 bleeding miles actually um

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she said oh well you say the tea bag

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never lies that was a useful afternoon

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and then then there was the night I gave

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a talk to the pagan society the pagan

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society they meet in a British pub

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called the cotton ball in launceston I

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mean that alone is enough for a book

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anyway not surprisingly they hated me

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can't think why I'm being told that

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you're deluded idiots you know what's

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the problem that but now I absolutely

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hated me the only thing that remotely

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impressed them was when I told and I

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want to play to prostitute on the bill

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they broke into spontaneous applause

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which was terribly disappointing because

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you know I have again these visions I

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have a lot of it I have this vision of

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all these pagans you know I comporting

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about in the mood light every night

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rationing each other's your dog but no

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they're all at home watching reruns of

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the bills very disappointing and then

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the best of all I came this close ladies

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and gents this close to a religious

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experience please God please please

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engine with yashas do anything I'll give

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up alcohol from what you're laughing but

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has made a whole month it does mania

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with no booze is no joke right get on

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with it okay right and aside from having

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lots are very weird and wonderful

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experiences in Tasmania

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doesn't work and can't earn credit

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they're cartoons i'm not going into big

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trouble copyright gotten yourself off

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google very common thing you know

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I don't get it which is a very worried

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if there are some creationist int Aziz

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um but over the last two years I've done

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lots of studies bump interviewed lots of

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Tasmanians and carried out various

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experiments here in there and I've

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actually managed to test about 1,500

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people now which is quite a good sample

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size those of you that both your

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research considering that the population

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that as he's actually just half a

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million I was a key quite quite a good

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sample size so this was just looking at

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religious belief in towson i just want

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to give you a flavor of what we're

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looking at so the top percentage not

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surprisingly christian but only

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thirty-five percent now within

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Christians i've included anglican as

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Protestants Catholics my case that's all

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within that thirty-five percent

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less than one set Muslims built

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dissident quite well to six percent

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Mormons couldn't do better 2.5 not too

269
00:14:41,290 --> 00:14:38,630
bad 16 is a wicker I had to look it up

270
00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:41,300
and then learn one way of pagans of

271
00:14:45,340 --> 00:14:42,770
course they fill me in and told me what

272
00:14:48,580 --> 00:14:45,350
weaker is they basically sit around

273
00:14:50,770 --> 00:14:48,590
basket weaving and hang out and do stuff

274
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:50,780
by that's why I got you over sixteen

275
00:14:58,390 --> 00:14:53,450
percent of them in Tasmania from this

276
00:15:01,990 --> 00:14:58,400
sample and ellemir anybody heard of

277
00:15:04,420 --> 00:15:02,000
felonies ten point five percent of women

278
00:15:10,340 --> 00:15:04,430
are in Tasmania okay I know what they

279
00:15:10,350 --> 00:15:15,280
are you from Tasmania

280
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:17,660
okay actually I have another one I had

281
00:15:21,710 --> 00:15:19,650
to look up they they they're very sort

282
00:15:23,540 --> 00:15:21,720
of new AEG not surprisingly it's a bit

283
00:15:26,269 --> 00:15:23,550
sore Scientology they believe in some

284
00:15:29,300 --> 00:15:26,279
sort of higher powers and there's some

285
00:15:31,490 --> 00:15:29,310
guru or other usual nocturnes but anyway

286
00:15:34,130 --> 00:15:31,500
2.5% so they're doing quite one in

287
00:15:37,700 --> 00:15:34,140
Tassie but thank heavens something we

288
00:15:40,220 --> 00:15:37,710
can be leaving us deal with Satanists

289
00:15:44,660 --> 00:15:40,230
just don't understand thank heaven for

290
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:44,670
that and no religion twenty-five percent

291
00:15:48,650 --> 00:15:46,890
so about a quarter of them have no

292
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:48,660
religion but look at the spread the

293
00:15:53,650 --> 00:15:51,210
diversity and I know it doesn't add up

294
00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:53,660
to a hundred smart asses in the audience

295
00:16:00,110 --> 00:15:57,450
the rest were either very strange things

296
00:16:01,730 --> 00:16:00,120
or things that I've never heard of all

297
00:16:03,769 --> 00:16:01,740
they were spelling mistakes or I'm you

298
00:16:09,829 --> 00:16:03,779
or run there were people that claim to

299
00:16:11,180 --> 00:16:09,839
be agnostics or an imposter that one

300
00:16:16,250 --> 00:16:11,190
when you don't believe in anything

301
00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:19,500
all right paranormal believe in tears I

302
00:16:24,030 --> 00:16:21,730
know I couldn't wait to get to this I

303
00:16:27,570 --> 00:16:24,040
could not wait to do the analysis right

304
00:16:30,620 --> 00:16:27,580
sixty percent believe in life after day

305
00:16:33,750 --> 00:16:30,630
they're not surprising because it's it's

306
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:33,760
it's such a religious place that it's

307
00:16:38,070 --> 00:16:35,410
not surprising that sixty percent

308
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:38,080
believe in life after death you know I'm

309
00:16:40,740 --> 00:16:39,370
not all that's the point believe in

310
00:16:44,670 --> 00:16:40,750
religion isn't it's like a look forward

311
00:16:46,620 --> 00:16:44,680
to and forty percent believe for the

312
00:16:52,580 --> 00:16:46,630
paranormal is real so almost half

313
00:16:55,980 --> 00:16:52,590
believe that panel real 22% a cena goes

314
00:16:59,280 --> 00:16:55,990
so there's our one in one in five I've

315
00:17:01,050 --> 00:16:59,290
seen a ghost Oh again not surprising

316
00:17:03,060 --> 00:17:01,060
because tasmat everything is haunting

317
00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:03,070
Tasmania crikey my toilet haunted

318
00:17:08,250 --> 00:17:04,720
apparently I mean that everything is

319
00:17:14,970 --> 00:17:08,260
haunted over there and eight percent per

320
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:14,980
seat UFO yes / 23 percent so a quarter

321
00:17:20,670 --> 00:17:17,410
of those people that I tested have had a

322
00:17:23,260 --> 00:17:20,680
psychic experience seven percent can

323
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:25,960
don't talk back I don't know but in many

324
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:28,210
ways seven central communicate with them

325
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:31,010
sixteen percent visit fortune tellers

326
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:32,810
tarot card readers and the Tea Leaf

327
00:17:39,910 --> 00:17:37,250
ladies or the tea bag lady seven percent

328
00:17:43,450 --> 00:17:39,920
playing to be psychic believe they are

329
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:43,460
psychic and this next one is my favorite

330
00:17:48,670 --> 00:17:46,730
statistic ever in all the years I've

331
00:17:57,120 --> 00:17:48,680
been doing this this is my favorite ever

332
00:17:58,990 --> 00:17:57,130
statistic two percent have met an

333
00:18:03,250 --> 00:17:59,000
extraterrestrial I'm no mathematician

334
00:18:07,090 --> 00:18:03,260
but I work that out to be 30 people 30

335
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:07,100
people have met an extraterrestrial it's

336
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:09,650
just amazing now all of these characters

337
00:18:17,049 --> 00:18:11,330
have actually written on their paper I

338
00:18:24,129 --> 00:18:21,389
in room so you can see why Tasmania is

339
00:18:25,210 --> 00:18:24,139
it's a psychologist room it's wonderful

340
00:18:27,930 --> 00:18:25,220
lots of lovely stuff to work with

341
00:18:31,629 --> 00:18:27,940
they're all right so enough about tally

342
00:18:33,820 --> 00:18:31,639
the psychology of belief now being a

343
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:33,830
psychologist being a social scientist I

344
00:18:37,869 --> 00:18:34,970
have to approach this thing

345
00:18:40,869 --> 00:18:37,879
scientifically so we have to first off

346
00:18:43,090 --> 00:18:40,879
start off with a definition what is

347
00:18:45,039 --> 00:18:43,100
belief okay so i looked it up in a

348
00:18:48,009 --> 00:18:45,049
dictionary psychologists dictionary any

349
00:18:51,489 --> 00:18:48,019
proposition that is accepted as true on

350
00:18:53,649 --> 00:18:51,499
the basis of inconclusive evidence now

351
00:18:56,350 --> 00:18:53,659
I'd like you to think about that because

352
00:18:57,970 --> 00:18:56,360
I think I've heard a couple of those

353
00:19:00,279 --> 00:18:57,980
over the last couple of days that's

354
00:19:02,430 --> 00:19:00,289
funny they just just keep that in mind

355
00:19:05,169 --> 00:19:02,440
as we go through some of these slides

356
00:19:07,389 --> 00:19:05,179
there's just some examples of the type

357
00:19:09,149 --> 00:19:07,399
of beliefs that are everywhere the sort

358
00:19:10,899 --> 00:19:09,159
of things that we come across

359
00:19:15,450 --> 00:19:10,909
conspiracies this is my favorite

360
00:19:17,619 --> 00:19:15,460
conspiracy theory i think the 911 towers

361
00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:17,629
when the planes hit there was this

362
00:19:23,109 --> 00:19:21,200
enormous cloud of smoke and some people

363
00:19:25,899 --> 00:19:23,119
believed got a lot of people believe

364
00:19:29,470 --> 00:19:25,909
that the smoke cloud looks like either

365
00:19:32,350 --> 00:19:29,480
the devil or Osama bin Laden so I think

366
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:32,360
that's a nice one

367
00:19:43,090 --> 00:19:38,530
this is another one of my favorites this

368
00:19:48,090 --> 00:19:43,100
intergalactic race of perverts are

369
00:19:53,169 --> 00:19:48,100
flying through the galaxy visiting earth

370
00:19:57,060 --> 00:19:53,179
only probing hapless Americans and then

371
00:19:59,620 --> 00:19:57,070
worst of all messing up that crop fields

372
00:20:06,070 --> 00:19:59,630
so that's my problem probably my

373
00:20:07,570 --> 00:20:06,080
favorite religious figures sorry he's

374
00:20:11,049 --> 00:20:07,580
not here obviously thought you would

375
00:20:13,900 --> 00:20:11,059
walk walked out um yeah really just

376
00:20:16,330 --> 00:20:13,910
figures and I it's not entirely humorous

377
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:16,340
that I put that up there we're just to

378
00:20:24,460 --> 00:20:22,610
rub it you know football and sport it's

379
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:24,470
more about life isn't it it's all about

380
00:20:28,930 --> 00:20:26,690
tribalism is all about blue so it's not

381
00:20:32,230 --> 00:20:28,940
just about religion it's our religious

382
00:20:37,430 --> 00:20:32,240
affiliations with the town and this is

383
00:20:42,860 --> 00:20:39,499
those Domingo hurdle talked before you

384
00:20:46,009 --> 00:20:42,870
tell me talk before you come across this

385
00:20:49,700 --> 00:20:46,019
one before wrong apology the ancient art

386
00:20:53,749 --> 00:20:49,710
of wrong pology the art of divination

387
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:53,759
based upon the pimples lumps and bumps

388
00:20:59,060 --> 00:20:57,450
on someone's butt okay it's absolutely

389
00:21:01,580 --> 00:20:59,070
true i'm not making this up over

390
00:21:12,930 --> 00:21:01,590
oncology this is the famous european

391
00:21:17,790 --> 00:21:14,970
there's an American a very famous

392
00:21:20,370 --> 00:21:17,800
American from apologist called jaclyn

393
00:21:23,310 --> 00:21:20,380
Stallone spookley or maybe not so

394
00:21:26,370 --> 00:21:23,320
spookily Sylvester Stallone's mother she

395
00:21:29,610 --> 00:21:26,380
is a very unwell practice run apologist

396
00:21:31,470 --> 00:21:29,620
and for 125 american dollars if you sent

397
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:31,480
her a digital photograph of your bomb

398
00:21:38,130 --> 00:21:34,210
she will give you a reading or I'll do

399
00:21:44,610 --> 00:21:40,740
they're this going to be an idea for an

400
00:21:47,060 --> 00:21:44,620
experiment and ladies and gentlemen

401
00:21:51,150 --> 00:21:47,070
you're very fortunate today because

402
00:21:52,650 --> 00:21:51,160
today is the birth of a brand new form

403
00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:52,660
of divination which I'm going to

404
00:21:57,210 --> 00:21:54,880
introduce you today and I thought right

405
00:21:59,310 --> 00:21:57,220
what part of that body what part of our

406
00:22:04,470 --> 00:21:59,320
bodies have we not exploited for

407
00:22:07,740 --> 00:22:04,480
divination purposes don't worry we'll be

408
00:22:10,020 --> 00:22:07,750
there body can we use the means we won't

409
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:10,030
get arrested so ladies and gentlemen I

410
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:13,330
want to introduce you to today the the

411
00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:19,330
ancient art of L Balaji yes show me your

412
00:22:26,010 --> 00:22:21,840
elbow and I'll show you who you are oh

413
00:22:29,220 --> 00:22:26,020
yeah devil bit phony phony there yeah

414
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:29,230
yeah but not going on there they're not

415
00:22:40,510 --> 00:22:38,200
down here aha but a bad skin yeah bit

416
00:22:43,780 --> 00:22:40,520
drive the psoriasis yes I can definitely

417
00:22:45,460 --> 00:22:43,790
see a handsome educated well-dressed

418
00:22:53,020 --> 00:22:45,470
stranger is going to come into your life

419
00:22:55,750 --> 00:22:53,030
yeah it's called a dermatologist it's

420
00:22:58,870 --> 00:22:55,760
easy to mock oh boy is it easy to mock

421
00:23:00,970 --> 00:22:58,880
um but how long do you think especially

422
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:00,980
given after what we heard from Rachel

423
00:23:05,020 --> 00:23:02,690
yesterday about you know twittering

424
00:23:07,450 --> 00:23:05,030
Facebook and all these new forms of

425
00:23:10,810 --> 00:23:07,460
communication imagine if I set up a

426
00:23:13,540 --> 00:23:10,820
website on El Monte and I wrote up lots

427
00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:13,550
of silly testimonials Oh babaji changed

428
00:23:19,300 --> 00:23:17,510
my life yellow um all wrote that sort of

429
00:23:21,130 --> 00:23:19,310
things set it all up how long do you

430
00:23:23,980 --> 00:23:21,140
think it would be before I started

431
00:23:26,980 --> 00:23:23,990
getting emails staying in digital

432
00:23:29,380 --> 00:23:26,990
photographs of people's elbows or five

433
00:23:31,900 --> 00:23:29,390
minutes yeah dear dr. Wilson here's a

434
00:23:35,620 --> 00:23:31,910
photograph my elbow taken six months ago

435
00:23:43,930 --> 00:23:41,050
will I ever find love no so L Balaji

436
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:43,940
okay I am going on today tonight with

437
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:46,490
this one definitely okay I think it's

438
00:23:51,610 --> 00:23:48,050
going to work so watch out our apologies

439
00:23:53,110 --> 00:23:51,620
coming to a town near you okay right now

440
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:53,120
the point of all of that is to

441
00:23:59,410 --> 00:23:56,450
illustrate a ubiquitous nature of belief

442
00:24:03,160 --> 00:23:59,420
okay it's everywhere it's in everything

443
00:24:06,430 --> 00:24:03,170
we do it's all around us imagine order

444
00:24:10,750 --> 00:24:06,440
we didn't have belief now I personally

445
00:24:12,550 --> 00:24:10,760
think that researchers included and I

446
00:24:15,310 --> 00:24:12,560
include myself in this we've had the

447
00:24:17,350 --> 00:24:15,320
wrong approach to study in belief we

448
00:24:21,010 --> 00:24:17,360
approach it from the idea that believes

449
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:21,020
a bad thing um and we asked well why do

450
00:24:24,670 --> 00:24:22,850
people believe why do people believe in

451
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:24,680
this stuff but I wonder if we're not

452
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:26,930
asking the wrong question maybe we

453
00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:28,730
should ask well why is it that some

454
00:24:35,290 --> 00:24:31,370
people don't believe and I don't believe

455
00:24:37,870 --> 00:24:35,300
I don't think I don't think the belief

456
00:24:39,790 --> 00:24:37,880
is actually the enmity belief itself is

457
00:24:42,730 --> 00:24:39,800
not the end of it hopefully all I'll

458
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:42,740
explain why as we go through all right

459
00:24:48,670 --> 00:24:45,770
if this was a psychology lecture and you

460
00:24:50,830 --> 00:24:48,680
were all my undergrads um I would say

461
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:50,840
right okay boys girls ladies and

462
00:24:55,900 --> 00:24:53,090
gentlemen um we're going to talk about

463
00:24:59,010 --> 00:24:55,910
psychology of belief and whenever you

464
00:25:00,990 --> 00:24:59,020
talk about the psychology of any human

465
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:01,000
characteristic we always talk about

466
00:25:07,300 --> 00:25:04,250
multifaceted criteria okay so

467
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:07,310
multifaceted ideological criteria which

468
00:25:11,230 --> 00:25:09,050
simply means you know the reasons was

469
00:25:12,850 --> 00:25:11,240
something the causes of something the

470
00:25:15,370 --> 00:25:12,860
only wanted to use the dinner parties

471
00:25:17,940 --> 00:25:15,380
that multifaceted inti illogical

472
00:25:19,740 --> 00:25:17,950
criteria oh yes

473
00:25:21,299 --> 00:25:19,750
you know there's a multi-faceted eat

474
00:25:23,909 --> 00:25:21,309
illogical criteria for the global

475
00:25:26,850 --> 00:25:23,919
financial crisis you know if you say

476
00:25:29,879 --> 00:25:26,860
that that she's really all they'll think

477
00:25:33,330 --> 00:25:29,889
I she's right geek nice one to try

478
00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:33,340
though so anyway the ETP etiological

479
00:25:38,159 --> 00:25:35,919
criteria for belief i'm going to give

480
00:25:40,950 --> 00:25:38,169
you today biological cognitive and

481
00:25:45,860 --> 00:25:40,960
environmental so let's have a look at

482
00:25:51,740 --> 00:25:45,870
biology and welcome biology tell us um

483
00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:55,070
wouldn't it be great if it was all down

484
00:26:00,290 --> 00:25:58,080
to brain chemistry if it was all down to

485
00:26:03,020 --> 00:26:00,300
the usual suspects dopamine and

486
00:26:04,970 --> 00:26:03,030
serotonin right taken take a pill the

487
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:04,980
belief goes away now of course in

488
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:08,690
extreme cases that's exactly what we do

489
00:26:14,900 --> 00:26:12,090
antipsychotic drugs have been helping

490
00:26:17,690 --> 00:26:14,910
out schizophrenics and the clinically

491
00:26:21,650 --> 00:26:17,700
dilute it psychotic see for example over

492
00:26:26,060 --> 00:26:21,660
since the 1950s so so neurotransmitters

493
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:26,070
key do have some element to this but

494
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:27,570
we're not talking about it clinically

495
00:26:34,430 --> 00:26:29,330
deluded we're not talking about

496
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:34,440
schizophrenics sidekicks are absolutely

497
00:26:39,170 --> 00:26:36,330
the scum of the earth and deserve to die

498
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:39,180
in Windows ourselves yes but they're not

499
00:26:45,500 --> 00:26:43,170
mad they're not mad Oh house why so you

500
00:26:47,750 --> 00:26:45,510
think they see dead people I'm not

501
00:26:51,140 --> 00:26:47,760
insane they're not suffering from mental

502
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:51,150
disorders and either indeed our alien

503
00:26:54,950 --> 00:26:52,530
abductees so you think they've been

504
00:26:57,290 --> 00:26:54,960
abducted by aliens and there's no real

505
00:27:01,400 --> 00:26:57,300
pathology there they're just they're

506
00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:01,410
usually you're saying rational people as

507
00:27:07,460 --> 00:27:05,370
what personality then personality has a

508
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:07,470
largely genetic component so what can

509
00:27:12,050 --> 00:27:09,810
personality trying to tell us is there a

510
00:27:16,010 --> 00:27:12,060
personality that is particularly prone

511
00:27:18,740 --> 00:27:16,020
to believe for example well um

512
00:27:21,140 --> 00:27:18,750
researchers such as myself all over the

513
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:21,150
world spin last 30-odd years really

514
00:27:26,410 --> 00:27:23,970
looking at the potential correlation

515
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:26,420
between certain personality

516
00:27:31,130 --> 00:27:28,170
characteristics and belief in the

517
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:31,140
paranormal and these three of typically

518
00:27:36,050 --> 00:27:33,050
the ones that are looked at so

519
00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:36,060
dissociation of fancy proneness

520
00:27:43,070 --> 00:27:40,320
and suggestibility now the the findings

521
00:27:47,090 --> 00:27:43,080
that you get produce a very mixed

522
00:27:49,460 --> 00:27:47,100
picture and yes some things correlate

523
00:27:51,020 --> 00:27:49,470
and fantasy prime nurse in all of the

524
00:27:52,790 --> 00:27:51,030
studies that I've done in the seven

525
00:27:56,300 --> 00:27:52,800
years I've been doing this all of the

526
00:27:58,460 --> 00:27:56,310
studies include my PhD yes I found a

527
00:28:00,050 --> 00:27:58,470
very strong correlation strong a

528
00:28:03,410 --> 00:28:00,060
significant correlation between fantasy

529
00:28:05,660 --> 00:28:03,420
Primus and belief in the paranormal and

530
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:05,670
when I looked at as Manian sample they

531
00:28:10,550 --> 00:28:07,770
were off the jar with Francis leronis

532
00:28:13,540 --> 00:28:10,560
not surprisingly but the rest of it yeah

533
00:28:16,970 --> 00:28:13,550
there's a very mixed picture so this

534
00:28:20,140 --> 00:28:16,980
attempt the skeptical researchers have

535
00:28:22,490 --> 00:28:20,150
had to try and show that believers are

536
00:28:24,230 --> 00:28:22,500
falling critical thinking that they've

537
00:28:26,750 --> 00:28:24,240
got personality defects that they're

538
00:28:28,730 --> 00:28:26,760
particularly prone to believe in the

539
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:28,740
paranormal is simply not true it's just

540
00:28:36,110 --> 00:28:30,690
not there so there's something else

541
00:28:39,020 --> 00:28:36,120
going on ok the role of cognition now I

542
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:39,030
blame the what we call the cognitive

543
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:42,930
revolution in the 50s and 60s for the

544
00:28:49,820 --> 00:28:46,290
idea that our brains function like

545
00:28:53,270 --> 00:28:49,830
computers the chords of revolution came

546
00:28:56,150 --> 00:28:53,280
about as a kind of swinging away from

547
00:28:58,670 --> 00:28:56,160
behaviorism which was the fashion of the

548
00:29:01,790 --> 00:28:58,680
day in psychology so cognitive

549
00:29:04,220 --> 00:29:01,800
revolution said that some sated that

550
00:29:05,630 --> 00:29:04,230
it's all about information processing

551
00:29:07,100 --> 00:29:05,640
that that's what we're all about that's

552
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:07,110
why we do the things we do because it's

553
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:09,570
all down to information processing such

554
00:29:15,500 --> 00:29:12,810
as memory and problem-solving etc etc

555
00:29:17,750 --> 00:29:15,510
etc so but they were the ones who came

556
00:29:19,030 --> 00:29:17,760
up with this analogy that our brains are

557
00:29:21,650 --> 00:29:19,040
like computer

558
00:29:24,340 --> 00:29:21,660
which is led to all kinds of erroneous

559
00:29:28,910 --> 00:29:24,350
thinking about how our brains work

560
00:29:32,300 --> 00:29:28,920
memory for example is not fallible we

561
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:32,310
don't record events in our lives with

562
00:29:36,650 --> 00:29:34,650
perfect accuracy and perfect clarity

563
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:36,660
that we can play back over and over

564
00:29:41,230 --> 00:29:38,850
again is a fluid constructive process

565
00:29:44,380 --> 00:29:41,240
and it's the same with our other

566
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:44,390
cognitive abilities with perception etc

567
00:29:50,750 --> 00:29:48,450
we see often what we haven't seen we

568
00:29:53,810 --> 00:29:50,760
hear what we haven't actually heard and

569
00:29:56,990 --> 00:29:53,820
as I said we can even recall events that

570
00:29:58,700 --> 00:29:57,000
never even took place that again those

571
00:30:01,250 --> 00:29:58,710
of you going to talk for you'll have

572
00:30:02,780 --> 00:30:01,260
seen and heard this one before apologies

573
00:30:05,090 --> 00:30:02,790
have shown it to you again but is so

574
00:30:06,770 --> 00:30:05,100
good it's so good that I never get bored

575
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:06,780
listen to it i'm sure you'll enjoy it

576
00:30:12,140 --> 00:30:08,610
again as well this is a fantastic

577
00:30:15,020 --> 00:30:12,150
example of hearing something that we

578
00:30:16,610 --> 00:30:15,030
haven't actually heard but when you when

579
00:30:18,980 --> 00:30:16,620
it's in a certain context when you're

580
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:18,990
told what you're actually hearing and

581
00:30:23,330 --> 00:30:20,850
you can actually hear it it's an

582
00:30:26,060 --> 00:30:23,340
allegedly a backward satanic message

583
00:30:28,970 --> 00:30:26,070
which was found in the 1980s that allora

584
00:30:31,100 --> 00:30:28,980
rock bands were accused of putting

585
00:30:32,510 --> 00:30:31,110
satanic messages in their music and you

586
00:30:35,060 --> 00:30:32,520
only hear the pic you actually played it

587
00:30:39,690 --> 00:30:35,070
backwards this is the best example I've

588
00:30:45,509 --> 00:30:42,539
most one man so there is it's from

589
00:31:04,700 --> 00:30:45,519
stairway to heaven this is that play for

590
00:31:04,710 --> 00:31:09,850
good

591
00:31:09,860 --> 00:31:15,260
hey

592
00:31:20,850 --> 00:31:17,730
okay anything satanic and I think niles

593
00:31:22,590 --> 00:31:20,860
d lurking in their home okay right this

594
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:22,600
is it the same bit music playing

595
00:31:30,610 --> 00:31:36,259
quickly

596
00:31:36,269 --> 00:31:52,500
oh yes they

597
00:32:00,580 --> 00:31:57,010
so this time listen to again but read

598
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:00,590
this and for those listening along on

599
00:32:04,450 --> 00:32:02,810
the podcast the words coming up on the

600
00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:04,460
screen which you might hear in the song

601
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:08,510
are here's to my sweet Satan the one

602
00:32:15,790 --> 00:32:10,850
whose little path would make me sad

603
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:15,800
whose power is Satan he'll give you 666

604
00:32:56,009 --> 00:32:18,770
there was a little tool shed where he

605
00:33:00,460 --> 00:32:58,810
you only hear it because I've told you

606
00:33:02,499 --> 00:33:00,470
what you'll hear it of course he's not

607
00:33:04,810 --> 00:33:02,509
saying these things but you hear it very

608
00:33:06,219 --> 00:33:04,820
very clearly there are some other

609
00:33:18,789 --> 00:33:06,229
examples on the internet but that's the

610
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:18,799
best one we've ever found it always said

611
00:33:33,860 --> 00:33:22,050
I never get tired of hearing it

612
00:33:39,940 --> 00:33:37,820
you agree more all right so five minutes

613
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:39,950
environmental factors is the other

614
00:33:47,060 --> 00:33:44,130
etiology yet obviously the media loves

615
00:33:50,420 --> 00:33:47,070
the paranormal absolutely loves it and

616
00:33:53,299 --> 00:33:50,430
hit the sheer volume of the stuff that

617
00:33:55,670 --> 00:33:53,309
we have on TV and in films about the

618
00:33:58,520 --> 00:33:55,680
paranormal is obviously going to create

619
00:34:01,940 --> 00:33:58,530
some atmosphere of acceptance that this

620
00:34:04,490 --> 00:34:01,950
stuff is real so um media also has a big

621
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:04,500
part to play and so all right why do we

622
00:34:07,850 --> 00:34:05,850
believe in this stuff there well

623
00:34:11,210 --> 00:34:07,860
obviously there's lots of reasons why we

624
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:11,220
believe those were the sort of textbook

625
00:34:15,350 --> 00:34:13,290
if you like psychological reasons but

626
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:15,360
there's all kinds of other reasons why

627
00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:17,850
we believe in these things and one of

628
00:34:22,669 --> 00:34:19,169
the reasons I personally believe

629
00:34:25,100 --> 00:34:22,679
personally think it will account this is

630
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:25,110
that we we desperately want to search

631
00:34:30,980 --> 00:34:29,010
for meaning in what is meaning less you

632
00:34:33,950 --> 00:34:30,990
know we look the patterns in things as

633
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:33,960
human beings we look for for pictures of

634
00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:36,450
faces in object you know we see visions

635
00:34:41,690 --> 00:34:40,169
of the Virgin Mary in Doritos and things

636
00:34:43,820 --> 00:34:41,700
you know we're always looking for

637
00:34:48,710 --> 00:34:43,830
patterns are looking for reasons to

638
00:34:51,619 --> 00:34:48,720
explain all of this so some tentative

639
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:51,629
conclusions then and belief for me is

640
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:54,770
not the enemy even though we we tend to

641
00:34:59,200 --> 00:34:56,210
think that it is we tend to think that

642
00:35:03,610 --> 00:34:59,210
it's a bad thing but belief is not the

643
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:03,620
enemy it's who we are it's as much part

644
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:06,770
of the human condition for me as hunger

645
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:10,250
and need for intimacy and a drive for

646
00:35:16,090 --> 00:35:12,530
accomplishment it's part of who we are

647
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:16,100
as part of the human maker and believers

648
00:35:21,790 --> 00:35:18,850
are not significantly different from

649
00:35:25,390 --> 00:35:21,800
non-believers I think with all believers

650
00:35:30,220 --> 00:35:25,400
we all believe in something because when

651
00:35:33,430 --> 00:35:30,230
we believe we feel strong and we feel

652
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:33,440
strong when we exclude others so we've

653
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:36,410
got believers non-believers Christians

654
00:35:44,380 --> 00:35:41,170
Muslims Sydney Melbourne AFL NRL

655
00:35:46,660 --> 00:35:44,390
Chardonnay Sauvignon Blanc you know we

656
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:46,670
feel better about ourselves ourselves

657
00:36:14,290 --> 00:35:50,450
when we exclude a group again absolutely

658
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:16,400
examining the truth in exposing the

659
00:36:20,780 --> 00:36:18,930
frauds but psychics co uk is the website

660
00:36:22,849 --> 00:36:20,790
that critically examines mediums

661
00:36:24,710 --> 00:36:22,859
clairvoyants and psychics follow the

662
00:36:26,780 --> 00:36:24,720
controversies news and discussions in

663
00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:26,790
the lively forum community and now you

664
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:28,320
can download your weekly fix of

665
00:36:32,359 --> 00:36:30,000
righteous indignation the official

666
00:36:33,589 --> 00:36:32,369
podcast of bad psychics khodet UK that

667
00:36:36,740 --> 00:36:33,599
talks hard and critically about

668
00:36:38,079 --> 00:36:36,750
paranormal bad psychics doctor at UK the

669
00:36:54,990 --> 00:36:38,089
UK's largest and most respected

670
00:37:00,640 --> 00:36:57,310
well thank you very much for listening

671
00:37:03,010 --> 00:37:00,650
to go away thank you very much for

672
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:03,020
listening to this episode of the skeptic

673
00:37:08,950 --> 00:37:06,770
zone and join me again let me have a

674
00:37:11,530 --> 00:37:08,960
look at my calendar holy mackerel next

675
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:11,540
week it's New Years so join me again on

676
00:37:19,330 --> 00:37:15,650
the first of January 2010 for the

677
00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:19,340
skeptic zone number 63 2010 the year of

678
00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:22,730
Tam Australia that's exciting until then

679
00:37:34,150 --> 00:37:30,160
you've been listening to the skeptic

680
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:34,160
zone visit our website at wwc a petting

681
00:37:40,370 --> 00:37:37,970
zoo TV for comments contacts and extra

682
00:37:52,100 --> 00:37:40,380
video reports